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	<title>Comments on: Introductory Science Fiction Books for Literary Readers</title>
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	<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/intro-literary-sf/</link>
	<description>Science Fiction Novelist, Blogger, Web Programmer</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 21 Mar 2012 17:10:46 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Brent</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/intro-literary-sf/comment-page-3/#comment-6440</link>
		<dc:creator>Brent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jan 2012 22:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=228#comment-6440</guid>
		<description>I think the key is to avoid anything that is gimmicky or features a strong male protagonist in any situation that might make him seem too much like a &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Great Man&quot;&lt;/a&gt;.  Probably also a good idea to avoid anything with a steep learning curve, like hard sci-fi.

There&#039;s a lot of interesting suggestions here, but I want to recommend Michael Flynn&#039;s Eifelheim.  It&#039;s like a sci-fi Name of the Rose, only far better.  Flynn&#039;s grasp of language should take anyone&#039;s breath away and the story is well-researched and incredibly touching.  It has aliens and even a spaceship, but the story is more focused on the everyday lives of people in a medieval village, and the timeless theme of people trying to grasp the world around them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the key is to avoid anything that is gimmicky or features a strong male protagonist in any situation that might make him seem too much like a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Great Man&#8221;</a>.  Probably also a good idea to avoid anything with a steep learning curve, like hard sci-fi.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a lot of interesting suggestions here, but I want to recommend Michael Flynn&#8217;s Eifelheim.  It&#8217;s like a sci-fi Name of the Rose, only far better.  Flynn&#8217;s grasp of language should take anyone&#8217;s breath away and the story is well-researched and incredibly touching.  It has aliens and even a spaceship, but the story is more focused on the everyday lives of people in a medieval village, and the timeless theme of people trying to grasp the world around them.</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Burns</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/intro-literary-sf/comment-page-3/#comment-6330</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2011 14:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=228#comment-6330</guid>
		<description>Just found this site, as I&#039;m doing some research on certain themes in speculative fiction.  Excellent posts, folks, a cut well above the usual blogosphere blather.  Only problem is I now have a whole lot more items on my &quot;have not read yet but must do so&quot; list.  One suggestion I don&#039;t believe anyone mentioned was Russell Hoban&#039;s &quot;Riddley Walker&quot; - a stunning apocalypse-themed tour de force for anyone interested in language evolution and the making of myths.  The language takes a bit of getting used to, but if you stick with it you&#039;ll find suddenly it just begins to make sense, and it&#039;s a terrific read.  If anyone is still watching this blog, I need some help. . .recommendations specific to consciousness, sentience, telepathy, and mind/body themes in speculative fiction.  Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just found this site, as I&#8217;m doing some research on certain themes in speculative fiction.  Excellent posts, folks, a cut well above the usual blogosphere blather.  Only problem is I now have a whole lot more items on my &#8220;have not read yet but must do so&#8221; list.  One suggestion I don&#8217;t believe anyone mentioned was Russell Hoban&#8217;s &#8220;Riddley Walker&#8221; &#8211; a stunning apocalypse-themed tour de force for anyone interested in language evolution and the making of myths.  The language takes a bit of getting used to, but if you stick with it you&#8217;ll find suddenly it just begins to make sense, and it&#8217;s a terrific read.  If anyone is still watching this blog, I need some help. . .recommendations specific to consciousness, sentience, telepathy, and mind/body themes in speculative fiction.  Thanks!</p>
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		<title>By: Farhan</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/intro-literary-sf/comment-page-3/#comment-6307</link>
		<dc:creator>Farhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Apr 2011 13:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=228#comment-6307</guid>
		<description>I read a lot of science fiction but it&#039;s very rare that I&#039;m truly impressed by a book. 

&#039;Spin&#039; by Robert Charles Wilson simply took my breath away.

Ted Chiang&#039;s short stories are meticulously crafted gems of deep-thinking genius/

Robert J. Sawyer&#039;s &#039;Mindscan,&#039; &#039;Rollback,&#039; and &#039;Calculating God&#039; are awe-inspiring for their philosophical bent combined with good story-telling.

Patrick Lee&#039;s &#039;The Breach&#039; is probably the best when it comes to combining science fiction, breathless pacing, and deft twists of the plot that would give any mystery writer a run for his/ her money. 

But, Mr. Edelman, keeping your &#039;literary&#039; requirement in mind, I&#039;d highly, highly recommend:

&#039;Daemon&#039; by Daniel Suarez to those literary snobs, or to anyone else for that matter, you included. It is just too good a book to miss. Do give it a shot, if you haven&#039;t already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read a lot of science fiction but it&#8217;s very rare that I&#8217;m truly impressed by a book. </p>
<p>&#8216;Spin&#8217; by Robert Charles Wilson simply took my breath away.</p>
<p>Ted Chiang&#8217;s short stories are meticulously crafted gems of deep-thinking genius/</p>
<p>Robert J. Sawyer&#8217;s &#8216;Mindscan,&#8217; &#8216;Rollback,&#8217; and &#8216;Calculating God&#8217; are awe-inspiring for their philosophical bent combined with good story-telling.</p>
<p>Patrick Lee&#8217;s &#8216;The Breach&#8217; is probably the best when it comes to combining science fiction, breathless pacing, and deft twists of the plot that would give any mystery writer a run for his/ her money. </p>
<p>But, Mr. Edelman, keeping your &#8216;literary&#8217; requirement in mind, I&#8217;d highly, highly recommend:</p>
<p>&#8216;Daemon&#8217; by Daniel Suarez to those literary snobs, or to anyone else for that matter, you included. It is just too good a book to miss. Do give it a shot, if you haven&#8217;t already.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/intro-literary-sf/comment-page-3/#comment-6223</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=228#comment-6223</guid>
		<description>WE by Yevgeny Zamyatin. Excellent book. I even collect different translations of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WE by Yevgeny Zamyatin. Excellent book. I even collect different translations of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Kathleen Goonan</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/intro-literary-sf/comment-page-3/#comment-5028</link>
		<dc:creator>Kathleen Goonan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Oct 2010 17:44:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=228#comment-5028</guid>
		<description>Not a new discussion, but perennially interesting; particularly interesting to writers who feel mis-drawered, as Vonnegut characterized it, in 1965: 

I have been a sore-headed occupant of a file-drawer labeled &#039;&#039;science- fiction&#039;&#039; ever since [publishing PLAYER PIANO], and I would like out, particularly since so many serious critics regularly mistake the drawer for a tall white fixture in a comfort station. 

The way a person gets into this drawer, apparently, is to notice technology. The feeling persists that no one can simultaneously be a respectable writer and understand how a refrigerator works, just as no gentleman wears a brown suit in the city.

There&#039;s more at http://www.vonnegutweb.com/archives/arc_scifi.html.  Obviously, Vonnegut got out.  

In her famous BBC inteview years ago, Atwood said that science fiction was about bug-eyed monsters and talking squids in space and that obviously, what she wrote was speculative, not science, fiction.  Conveniently &quot;SF.&quot;  She&#039;s backed off of that position a bit now, but still prefers to keep the bit in her mouth and lead the audience this way or that, depending.  

I think that often people who read quickly simply don&#039;t like to be slowed by the unfamiliar terms that those in the sf club absorbed years ago; it is a kind of code that keeps some readers out.  Also, as Vonnegut says in his full essay, it kind of goes back to Snow&#039;s two-culture observation, in which a wilful ignorance of All Things Technical (or, conversely, All Things Time-Wastingly Literary) seems bred into our sadly bifurcated education system.  

I did recommend The Dispossessed to a high-lit friend of mine over thirty years ago; plucked it from a college-bookstore bin in Corvallis and said, &quot;You ought to read this.&quot;  His reply: &quot;I don&#039;t read science fiction.&quot;  Period.  I didn&#039;t continue the argument at that point.  

Most people are simply not very catholic readers.  If you want a non-sf reader to acquire a new taste, you really do have to tread carefully.  

I do recall the exact time and date (July 4, 1980) when I plucked Crowley&#039;s Engine Summer from my father&#039;s pile of vacation reading and he looked up from reading Heinlein and said, &quot;That&#039;s really good.&quot;  It is.  Wouldn&#039;t be a bad place to start the converstion process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not a new discussion, but perennially interesting; particularly interesting to writers who feel mis-drawered, as Vonnegut characterized it, in 1965: </p>
<p>I have been a sore-headed occupant of a file-drawer labeled &#8221;science- fiction&#8221; ever since [publishing PLAYER PIANO], and I would like out, particularly since so many serious critics regularly mistake the drawer for a tall white fixture in a comfort station. </p>
<p>The way a person gets into this drawer, apparently, is to notice technology. The feeling persists that no one can simultaneously be a respectable writer and understand how a refrigerator works, just as no gentleman wears a brown suit in the city.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s more at <a href="http://www.vonnegutweb.com/archives/arc_scifi.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.vonnegutweb.com/archives/arc_scifi.html</a>.  Obviously, Vonnegut got out.  </p>
<p>In her famous BBC inteview years ago, Atwood said that science fiction was about bug-eyed monsters and talking squids in space and that obviously, what she wrote was speculative, not science, fiction.  Conveniently &#8220;SF.&#8221;  She&#8217;s backed off of that position a bit now, but still prefers to keep the bit in her mouth and lead the audience this way or that, depending.  </p>
<p>I think that often people who read quickly simply don&#8217;t like to be slowed by the unfamiliar terms that those in the sf club absorbed years ago; it is a kind of code that keeps some readers out.  Also, as Vonnegut says in his full essay, it kind of goes back to Snow&#8217;s two-culture observation, in which a wilful ignorance of All Things Technical (or, conversely, All Things Time-Wastingly Literary) seems bred into our sadly bifurcated education system.  </p>
<p>I did recommend The Dispossessed to a high-lit friend of mine over thirty years ago; plucked it from a college-bookstore bin in Corvallis and said, &#8220;You ought to read this.&#8221;  His reply: &#8220;I don&#8217;t read science fiction.&#8221;  Period.  I didn&#8217;t continue the argument at that point.  </p>
<p>Most people are simply not very catholic readers.  If you want a non-sf reader to acquire a new taste, you really do have to tread carefully.  </p>
<p>I do recall the exact time and date (July 4, 1980) when I plucked Crowley&#8217;s Engine Summer from my father&#8217;s pile of vacation reading and he looked up from reading Heinlein and said, &#8220;That&#8217;s really good.&#8221;  It is.  Wouldn&#8217;t be a bad place to start the converstion process.</p>
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		<title>By: Davor</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/intro-literary-sf/comment-page-3/#comment-5002</link>
		<dc:creator>Davor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 22:38:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=228#comment-5002</guid>
		<description>What about The Miles Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold? I can&#039;t judge if it would pass for literary, because I&#039;m not that well read and would probably fall into the &#039;Da Vinci Code books stack&#039;. But my grandfather is a literary reader and he ate through the Bujold books almost as quickly as I have. Perhaps I&#039;m more lowbrow than I think but I found the books very interesting, well written and hard to put down. I would of course recommend starting with The Warrior&#039;s apprentice and not the prequels, but they should be read as well.
Funny thing is, I was attracted to the book because of it&#039;s cover (Croatian edition) by Esad T. Ribic. I&#039;m glad it happened. Don&#039;t know if such a discussion already exists (I&#039;m new to the site), but I&#039;d like to know your thoughts on the relevance of the book&#039;s cover to it&#039;s success. I was attracted to Discworld by it&#039;s covers as well (Kidby and later Kirby).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about The Miles Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold? I can&#8217;t judge if it would pass for literary, because I&#8217;m not that well read and would probably fall into the &#8216;Da Vinci Code books stack&#8217;. But my grandfather is a literary reader and he ate through the Bujold books almost as quickly as I have. Perhaps I&#8217;m more lowbrow than I think but I found the books very interesting, well written and hard to put down. I would of course recommend starting with The Warrior&#8217;s apprentice and not the prequels, but they should be read as well.<br />
Funny thing is, I was attracted to the book because of it&#8217;s cover (Croatian edition) by Esad T. Ribic. I&#8217;m glad it happened. Don&#8217;t know if such a discussion already exists (I&#8217;m new to the site), but I&#8217;d like to know your thoughts on the relevance of the book&#8217;s cover to it&#8217;s success. I was attracted to Discworld by it&#8217;s covers as well (Kidby and later Kirby).</p>
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		<title>By: Ignorance_Is_Strength</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/intro-literary-sf/comment-page-3/#comment-4959</link>
		<dc:creator>Ignorance_Is_Strength</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 May 2010 16:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=228#comment-4959</guid>
		<description>Definitely recommend reading the classic George Orwell&#039;s 1984 in secret because Big Brother Is Watching You.  Reread it recently and DoubleThink it is applicable to current office politics.  Another unmentioned book is &lt;i&gt; The Science Fiction of Edgar Allan Poe &lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely recommend reading the classic George Orwell&#8217;s 1984 in secret because Big Brother Is Watching You.  Reread it recently and DoubleThink it is applicable to current office politics.  Another unmentioned book is <i> The Science Fiction of Edgar Allan Poe </i></p>
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		<title>By: Thegoodman</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/intro-literary-sf/comment-page-3/#comment-4779</link>
		<dc:creator>Thegoodman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 17:48:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=228#comment-4779</guid>
		<description>I have read no mention of &lt;i&gt;The Moon is a Harsh Mistress&lt;/i&gt; by Heinlein, I think it is a terrific book and none of the ideas/situations are outlandish enough to scare off any non-scifi fans and the material is mature enough to satisfy most adult readers.  

I agree that &lt;i&gt;Starship Troopers&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Stranger in a Strange Land&lt;/i&gt; might scare off beginners.

If you do happen to step into the Fantasy world with this discussion, I think that &lt;i&gt;The Dark Tower&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;A Song of Ice and Fire&lt;/i&gt; are worth mentioning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read no mention of <i>The Moon is a Harsh Mistress</i> by Heinlein, I think it is a terrific book and none of the ideas/situations are outlandish enough to scare off any non-scifi fans and the material is mature enough to satisfy most adult readers.  </p>
<p>I agree that <i>Starship Troopers</i> and <i>Stranger in a Strange Land</i> might scare off beginners.</p>
<p>If you do happen to step into the Fantasy world with this discussion, I think that <i>The Dark Tower</i> and <i>A Song of Ice and Fire</i> are worth mentioning.</p>
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		<title>By: David Haynes</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/intro-literary-sf/comment-page-3/#comment-4634</link>
		<dc:creator>David Haynes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 15:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=228#comment-4634</guid>
		<description>Thanks for setting this up, David. I&#039;ve just recently seen it and hope I&#039;m not coming on board too late for adding my dimes&#039; worth. As a complete book addict I read it all. All genres, fiction and non. The only requirement is a certain level of quality which ends up omitting a great many of the books I glance over in the new-and-useds. Of course we all have a few pet interests. That sweet tooth that 
makes us tolerate a particular  2nd or even 3rd rate candy on occasion, like historical Rome fiction, short stories dealing with time travel. I did a Phd program in Mod Eng Lit(Pound/Joyce) and have a preference for old masters and modern. Current reading for me is Anthony Trollope&#039;s 6 volume PALLISER series. I find today&#039;s fascinating hard science has greatly displaced my youthful obsession with science fiction and yet I still love the genre and would never think of giving up or failing to re-read on occasion the old masters of Sci-Fi: Wells and Stapledon. And though I&#039;ve greatly enjoyed the work of Clarke, Bradberry  and LeGuin, though I&#039;ve generally found Heinlein and Asimov etc. clumsy and heavy handed. I am always hoping to find a scifi masterpiece and plan to check out several that were new to me from your list (Wilson and McDonald)
I absolutely love Stan Lem&#039;s work .No one mentioned his RETURN FROM THE STARS which has to be one of the very best treatments of the subject. And I still think Walter Tevis&#039; MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH is subtantial literature, not to mention a great read. Many other sci-fi favorites of mine are short stories and novellas. David Hartwell&#039;s THE SCI FI CENTURY is an excellent collection for all readers. But a &quot;great read,&quot; being our real concern here, is really a matter of personal taste. De gustibus non disbutandum. The comparison of &quot;great lit&quot;
and SciFi and being defensive about that reminds me of late 19th cent debate over photography and painting. Art has little to do with genre and most of the work produced in any genre falls short of great art despite the over use of the words &quot;genius&quot; and &quot;brilliant&quot; by many who wouldn&#039;t really recognize either. Great writing ,for instance, is not simply a matter of esoteric vocabulary, &quot;flowery&quot; language or obscure plot for it&#039;s own sake. e.g. Gene Wolf or Jack Vance. Ever seen Johnathan Winters do fake Shakespeare? Fine literature can be
difficult for the reader but it&#039;s always worth the work. The difference bewteen the substantial creation and the light-weight is the &quot;weight&quot; that the reader learns to perceive or fails to find in an author&#039;s work. For example it is the huge creation of a complete world,history, and language that the Lord Of The Rings stands so solidly upon and which the reader senses beneath Tolkein&#039;s writing. His words are charged with meaning. It is the lack of this &quot;weight&quot; in 95% of the genre of fantasy that makes reading it impossible for me. No suspension of disbelief is possible when the work is so clearly derivative and two dimensional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for setting this up, David. I&#8217;ve just recently seen it and hope I&#8217;m not coming on board too late for adding my dimes&#8217; worth. As a complete book addict I read it all. All genres, fiction and non. The only requirement is a certain level of quality which ends up omitting a great many of the books I glance over in the new-and-useds. Of course we all have a few pet interests. That sweet tooth that<br />
makes us tolerate a particular  2nd or even 3rd rate candy on occasion, like historical Rome fiction, short stories dealing with time travel. I did a Phd program in Mod Eng Lit(Pound/Joyce) and have a preference for old masters and modern. Current reading for me is Anthony Trollope&#8217;s 6 volume PALLISER series. I find today&#8217;s fascinating hard science has greatly displaced my youthful obsession with science fiction and yet I still love the genre and would never think of giving up or failing to re-read on occasion the old masters of Sci-Fi: Wells and Stapledon. And though I&#8217;ve greatly enjoyed the work of Clarke, Bradberry  and LeGuin, though I&#8217;ve generally found Heinlein and Asimov etc. clumsy and heavy handed. I am always hoping to find a scifi masterpiece and plan to check out several that were new to me from your list (Wilson and McDonald)<br />
I absolutely love Stan Lem&#8217;s work .No one mentioned his RETURN FROM THE STARS which has to be one of the very best treatments of the subject. And I still think Walter Tevis&#8217; MAN WHO FELL TO EARTH is subtantial literature, not to mention a great read. Many other sci-fi favorites of mine are short stories and novellas. David Hartwell&#8217;s THE SCI FI CENTURY is an excellent collection for all readers. But a &#8220;great read,&#8221; being our real concern here, is really a matter of personal taste. De gustibus non disbutandum. The comparison of &#8220;great lit&#8221;<br />
and SciFi and being defensive about that reminds me of late 19th cent debate over photography and painting. Art has little to do with genre and most of the work produced in any genre falls short of great art despite the over use of the words &#8220;genius&#8221; and &#8220;brilliant&#8221; by many who wouldn&#8217;t really recognize either. Great writing ,for instance, is not simply a matter of esoteric vocabulary, &#8220;flowery&#8221; language or obscure plot for it&#8217;s own sake. e.g. Gene Wolf or Jack Vance. Ever seen Johnathan Winters do fake Shakespeare? Fine literature can be<br />
difficult for the reader but it&#8217;s always worth the work. The difference bewteen the substantial creation and the light-weight is the &#8220;weight&#8221; that the reader learns to perceive or fails to find in an author&#8217;s work. For example it is the huge creation of a complete world,history, and language that the Lord Of The Rings stands so solidly upon and which the reader senses beneath Tolkein&#8217;s writing. His words are charged with meaning. It is the lack of this &#8220;weight&#8221; in 95% of the genre of fantasy that makes reading it impossible for me. No suspension of disbelief is possible when the work is so clearly derivative and two dimensional.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/intro-literary-sf/comment-page-3/#comment-4487</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Mar 2009 01:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=228#comment-4487</guid>
		<description>What a great list this is.  I second the Robert Charles Wilson &quot;Spin&quot; recommendation above all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great list this is.  I second the Robert Charles Wilson &#8220;Spin&#8221; recommendation above all.</p>
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