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	<title>Comments on: Plunderers of Dune</title>
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	<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/plunderers-of-dune/</link>
	<description>Science Fiction Novelist, Blogger, Web Programmer</description>
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		<title>By: Margo</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/plunderers-of-dune/comment-page-1/#comment-6411</link>
		<dc:creator>Margo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Nov 2011 20:08:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m currently re-reading the original series after having read all of the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson books published so far.  I&#039;ve mostly enjoyed them all.  I do find Frank Herbert&#039;s writing style much deeper and more thoughtful, but I still have very much enjoyed the other novels.  I look forward to future releases.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m currently re-reading the original series after having read all of the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson books published so far.  I&#8217;ve mostly enjoyed them all.  I do find Frank Herbert&#8217;s writing style much deeper and more thoughtful, but I still have very much enjoyed the other novels.  I look forward to future releases.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/plunderers-of-dune/comment-page-1/#comment-5018</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Aug 2010 15:47:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=1252#comment-5018</guid>
		<description>I have read through Frank&#039;s Dune books twice and they are some of the greatest fiction writing to date. When I started the House series I was just annoyed every step of the way because of the retconning and inconsistency and shallow writing. Even the internal monologues that KJA and BH started with in House Atreides had vanished by the end of the book never to be seen again in one of their writings. Most likely because no one ever thinks anything and the narrator has to remind us what was said in the previous paragraph every other paragraph like we were drug addled junkies who fried our brains before reading. Actually reading their work began frying my brain.
 I read the legends series and it was just an exercise in tedium to get through them. I picked up Hunters of Dune and after just 35 pages I was done. I couldn&#039;t take the hatchet job writing anymore. I remember is was a paragraph that was longer and actually reminded me of what was previously said in the beginning of that very paragraph. 
 I will give them no more money. The fact that they have some control over the newest talked about movie also makes me want them to just cancel the movie altogether. In my mind the Frank Herbert Dune books are all that exist in that world. 
 The best way to stop them from writing more is just stop buying their books. I&#039;ll do my part.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read through Frank&#8217;s Dune books twice and they are some of the greatest fiction writing to date. When I started the House series I was just annoyed every step of the way because of the retconning and inconsistency and shallow writing. Even the internal monologues that KJA and BH started with in House Atreides had vanished by the end of the book never to be seen again in one of their writings. Most likely because no one ever thinks anything and the narrator has to remind us what was said in the previous paragraph every other paragraph like we were drug addled junkies who fried our brains before reading. Actually reading their work began frying my brain.<br />
 I read the legends series and it was just an exercise in tedium to get through them. I picked up Hunters of Dune and after just 35 pages I was done. I couldn&#8217;t take the hatchet job writing anymore. I remember is was a paragraph that was longer and actually reminded me of what was previously said in the beginning of that very paragraph.<br />
 I will give them no more money. The fact that they have some control over the newest talked about movie also makes me want them to just cancel the movie altogether. In my mind the Frank Herbert Dune books are all that exist in that world.<br />
 The best way to stop them from writing more is just stop buying their books. I&#8217;ll do my part.</p>
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		<title>By: Disgusted</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/plunderers-of-dune/comment-page-1/#comment-5011</link>
		<dc:creator>Disgusted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jul 2010 22:12:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=1252#comment-5011</guid>
		<description>David, you have written an excellent encapsulation of this issue, and I commend you.  I wouldn&#039;t even know how to begin putting my disappointment into words.  That disappointment is so achingly deep.  I have just finished reading &lt;i&gt;Hunters of Dune&lt;/i&gt;, and I came to Google seeking solace an to attempting to comprehend &lt;i&gt;how&lt;/i&gt; he could do this to his father&#039;s vision.

I had read Brian&#039;s and Kevin&#039;s &quot;prequel&quot; trilogies when they came out, years after I had put down the complete &lt;i&gt;Dune&lt;/i&gt; series.  Their writing was so different from what I had remembered about Frank&#039;s that I had no trouble compartmentalizing the shallowness of the new stuff just to have a taste of the rich back story Frank Herbert repeatedly had alluded to.  It wasn&#039;t so bad for me, that part.  When I learned that the pair were to publish a conclusion to the palpably unfinished original series, I actually got excited.  In retrospect, I can&#039;t say why, other than I suppose I had made an entertainment decision to suspend disbelief.  Maybe I thought they would treat it more religiously.

Well, I wanted to wait until they were done before I read them, and I wanted to re-read the entire original series before I did.  And, of course, I didn&#039;t want to read any spoilers, so I avoided reviews.  So I just sat in the past couple months and read the original &lt;i&gt;Dune&lt;/i&gt;; &lt;i&gt;Dune Messiah&lt;/i&gt;; &lt;i&gt;Children of Dune&lt;/i&gt;; &lt;i&gt;God Emperor of Dune&lt;/i&gt;; &lt;i&gt;Heretics of Dune&lt;/i&gt;; and &lt;i&gt;Chapterhouse: Dune&lt;/i&gt;.  I was entranced as I read them for the second time, decades after my first reading, with unspeakable life lessons and wisdom built up within my philosophical mind.  I truly saw Frank Herbert for the first time as much more than just a visionary author, but as a true visionary, from whose perceptions little would be hidden.  Layer upon layer of depth, into which even the deepest intellect may find space to dwell.

The most thrilling part, I thought, of Frank&#039;s original work was that human beings in some regards had learned to overcome their basest parts in order to achieve higher levels of consciousness and potential.  Humanity was evolving into superhumanity, moving forward, becoming less animalistic.  There were the grandest of ideas at work in his novels.

So it was jarring to an extreme to find myself reaching page 520 at the end of that book by that other Herbert, &lt;i&gt;Hunters of Dune&lt;/i&gt; (by Herbert/Anderson–can&#039;t we just call them Herbertson?), only to have detected not a hint that these characters were anything more evolved than the characters of prime-time dramas and soaps.  It felt exactly as if I had been reading college literature and then suddenly found myself trying to find some hint of layers of meaning in &lt;i&gt;See Spot Run&lt;/i&gt;.  I am not really exaggerating all that much, and that&#039;s what is so unbelievable.  And the gore is just… disgusting.  My head hurts.

I have &lt;i&gt;Sandworms of Dune&lt;/i&gt;, as I had checked them both out simultaneously along with the last two &lt;i&gt;Dune&lt;/i&gt; books of Frank Herbert.  I don&#039;t know that I can bear to read it.  Do I really have to know?   And whence come these doubts in me about the authenticity of the fortuitous cache of unknown notes?

It&#039;s good to see people talking about this.  I used to have a kind of respect for the son that was granted by the aura of the father, but oftentimes a willingness to give unearned trust results in seriously misplaced trust.

&lt;i&gt;sigh&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, you have written an excellent encapsulation of this issue, and I commend you.  I wouldn&#8217;t even know how to begin putting my disappointment into words.  That disappointment is so achingly deep.  I have just finished reading <i>Hunters of Dune</i>, and I came to Google seeking solace an to attempting to comprehend <i>how</i> he could do this to his father&#8217;s vision.</p>
<p>I had read Brian&#8217;s and Kevin&#8217;s &#8220;prequel&#8221; trilogies when they came out, years after I had put down the complete <i>Dune</i> series.  Their writing was so different from what I had remembered about Frank&#8217;s that I had no trouble compartmentalizing the shallowness of the new stuff just to have a taste of the rich back story Frank Herbert repeatedly had alluded to.  It wasn&#8217;t so bad for me, that part.  When I learned that the pair were to publish a conclusion to the palpably unfinished original series, I actually got excited.  In retrospect, I can&#8217;t say why, other than I suppose I had made an entertainment decision to suspend disbelief.  Maybe I thought they would treat it more religiously.</p>
<p>Well, I wanted to wait until they were done before I read them, and I wanted to re-read the entire original series before I did.  And, of course, I didn&#8217;t want to read any spoilers, so I avoided reviews.  So I just sat in the past couple months and read the original <i>Dune</i>; <i>Dune Messiah</i>; <i>Children of Dune</i>; <i>God Emperor of Dune</i>; <i>Heretics of Dune</i>; and <i>Chapterhouse: Dune</i>.  I was entranced as I read them for the second time, decades after my first reading, with unspeakable life lessons and wisdom built up within my philosophical mind.  I truly saw Frank Herbert for the first time as much more than just a visionary author, but as a true visionary, from whose perceptions little would be hidden.  Layer upon layer of depth, into which even the deepest intellect may find space to dwell.</p>
<p>The most thrilling part, I thought, of Frank&#8217;s original work was that human beings in some regards had learned to overcome their basest parts in order to achieve higher levels of consciousness and potential.  Humanity was evolving into superhumanity, moving forward, becoming less animalistic.  There were the grandest of ideas at work in his novels.</p>
<p>So it was jarring to an extreme to find myself reaching page 520 at the end of that book by that other Herbert, <i>Hunters of Dune</i> (by Herbert/Anderson–can&#8217;t we just call them Herbertson?), only to have detected not a hint that these characters were anything more evolved than the characters of prime-time dramas and soaps.  It felt exactly as if I had been reading college literature and then suddenly found myself trying to find some hint of layers of meaning in <i>See Spot Run</i>.  I am not really exaggerating all that much, and that&#8217;s what is so unbelievable.  And the gore is just… disgusting.  My head hurts.</p>
<p>I have <i>Sandworms of Dune</i>, as I had checked them both out simultaneously along with the last two <i>Dune</i> books of Frank Herbert.  I don&#8217;t know that I can bear to read it.  Do I really have to know?   And whence come these doubts in me about the authenticity of the fortuitous cache of unknown notes?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s good to see people talking about this.  I used to have a kind of respect for the son that was granted by the aura of the father, but oftentimes a willingness to give unearned trust results in seriously misplaced trust.</p>
<p><i>sigh</i></p>
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		<title>By: David Louis Edelman</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/plunderers-of-dune/comment-page-1/#comment-4991</link>
		<dc:creator>David Louis Edelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 14:39:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=1252#comment-4991</guid>
		<description>Sandchigger: Hadn&#039;t actually heard that about the latest BH/KJA &lt;em&gt;Dune&lt;/em&gt; novels. Honestly, I wouldn&#039;t read too much into it. These guys have sold enough novels that I doubt their publishers would have pushed them to table the last two in the series. (Although I suppose there&#039;s always the possibility that they got a ginormous advance that the sales couldn&#039;t live up to.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandchigger: Hadn&#8217;t actually heard that about the latest BH/KJA <em>Dune</em> novels. Honestly, I wouldn&#8217;t read too much into it. These guys have sold enough novels that I doubt their publishers would have pushed them to table the last two in the series. (Although I suppose there&#8217;s always the possibility that they got a ginormous advance that the sales couldn&#8217;t live up to.)</p>
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		<title>By: SandChigger</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/plunderers-of-dune/comment-page-1/#comment-4989</link>
		<dc:creator>SandChigger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jun 2010 04:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=1252#comment-4989</guid>
		<description>Sure, Matt, if the current &quot;authors&quot; would change their position (that they are &quot;extending the Dune canon&quot;) and declare their &quot;works&quot; to be nothing more than fan fiction like &lt;i&gt;The Dune Encyclopedia&lt;/i&gt; was, I&#039;d be willing to cut them some slack. But how likely is that?

David, have you been following the funfest since &lt;i&gt;Paul of Dune&lt;/i&gt;? &lt;i&gt;The Winds of Dune&lt;/i&gt; (they changed the title from &lt;i&gt;Jessica of Dune&lt;/i&gt; just a few months before the release) was even more boring and inconsistency-filled than &lt;i&gt;Paul&lt;/i&gt;.

We&#039;re waiting now for an &quot;important announcement&quot; from KJA or the Herberts regarding the last two books of the &quot;Heroes&quot; series. It appears that they&#039;re going to table them temporarily (if not cancel them outright?) in favor of the first book of the &quot;Great Schools of Dune&quot; series they&#039;ve made noises about doing after the &quot;Heroes&quot;.

As an author yourself and someone familiar with the industry, what does a decision like that say to you? What would it have taken to convince (or even just prompt) you, for instance, to cancel your recent trilogy after just two books and begin a completely new series?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure, Matt, if the current &#8220;authors&#8221; would change their position (that they are &#8220;extending the Dune canon&#8221;) and declare their &#8220;works&#8221; to be nothing more than fan fiction like <i>The Dune Encyclopedia</i> was, I&#8217;d be willing to cut them some slack. But how likely is that?</p>
<p>David, have you been following the funfest since <i>Paul of Dune</i>? <i>The Winds of Dune</i> (they changed the title from <i>Jessica of Dune</i> just a few months before the release) was even more boring and inconsistency-filled than <i>Paul</i>.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re waiting now for an &#8220;important announcement&#8221; from KJA or the Herberts regarding the last two books of the &#8220;Heroes&#8221; series. It appears that they&#8217;re going to table them temporarily (if not cancel them outright?) in favor of the first book of the &#8220;Great Schools of Dune&#8221; series they&#8217;ve made noises about doing after the &#8220;Heroes&#8221;.</p>
<p>As an author yourself and someone familiar with the industry, what does a decision like that say to you? What would it have taken to convince (or even just prompt) you, for instance, to cancel your recent trilogy after just two books and begin a completely new series?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/plunderers-of-dune/comment-page-1/#comment-4988</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jun 2010 23:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=1252#comment-4988</guid>
		<description>While I began reading the Dune novels at the ripe old age of 11, I think you may be missing a point.  The newer novels are NOT the first time that what has been considered to be correct information has been knowingly changed/edited/revised/contradicted by a book authorized by Frank Herbert.  

Anyone remember The Dune Encyclopedia?

The &quot;book&quot; was filled with information that was not exactly in line with the novels, and was written in the idea that as people look back at history, ideas are muddled and changed.  It is still valid as a method of storytelling, but the facts are not exactly as you know them to be.

Perhaps we should give the current authors the benefit of a doubt, since they are telling the history of the original series, which is very often colored by the viewpoint of the person telling said history.  

One last comment about the amount of &quot;gore&quot; in the novels.  When the books were first written, society was less used to graphic violence than we are currently.  I am not claiming it is the best way for a society to exist, but with all of his thoughts on society as a whole, there might have been some understanding of the changes made in the newer novels.  It especially comes to mind his rather graphic sex scene in one of the last novels, which might have been more at home in a romance novel than a science fiction novel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I began reading the Dune novels at the ripe old age of 11, I think you may be missing a point.  The newer novels are NOT the first time that what has been considered to be correct information has been knowingly changed/edited/revised/contradicted by a book authorized by Frank Herbert.  </p>
<p>Anyone remember The Dune Encyclopedia?</p>
<p>The &#8220;book&#8221; was filled with information that was not exactly in line with the novels, and was written in the idea that as people look back at history, ideas are muddled and changed.  It is still valid as a method of storytelling, but the facts are not exactly as you know them to be.</p>
<p>Perhaps we should give the current authors the benefit of a doubt, since they are telling the history of the original series, which is very often colored by the viewpoint of the person telling said history.  </p>
<p>One last comment about the amount of &#8220;gore&#8221; in the novels.  When the books were first written, society was less used to graphic violence than we are currently.  I am not claiming it is the best way for a society to exist, but with all of his thoughts on society as a whole, there might have been some understanding of the changes made in the newer novels.  It especially comes to mind his rather graphic sex scene in one of the last novels, which might have been more at home in a romance novel than a science fiction novel.</p>
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		<title>By: David J. Williams &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Doin&#8217; Dune</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/plunderers-of-dune/comment-page-1/#comment-4899</link>
		<dc:creator>David J. Williams &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Doin&#8217; Dune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:34:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=1252#comment-4899</guid>
		<description>[...] collaboration yet.  For now, I refer you to my esteemed colleague David Louis Edelman, who&#8217;s said it all better than I could.) Submit [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] collaboration yet.  For now, I refer you to my esteemed colleague David Louis Edelman, who&#8217;s said it all better than I could.) Submit [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Louis Edelman</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/plunderers-of-dune/comment-page-1/#comment-4392</link>
		<dc:creator>David Louis Edelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=1252#comment-4392</guid>
		<description>Kralizec: Hmm, hadn&#039;t ever really thought about Plato in relation to Herbert. It&#039;s probably been over fifteen years since I&#039;ve read any Plato, so long that I can&#039;t even remember which dialogues I&#039;ve read.

That Frank Herbert was one smart, well-read dude.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kralizec: Hmm, hadn&#8217;t ever really thought about Plato in relation to Herbert. It&#8217;s probably been over fifteen years since I&#8217;ve read any Plato, so long that I can&#8217;t even remember which dialogues I&#8217;ve read.</p>
<p>That Frank Herbert was one smart, well-read dude.</p>
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		<title>By: Kralizec</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/plunderers-of-dune/comment-page-1/#comment-4391</link>
		<dc:creator>Kralizec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 06:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=1252#comment-4391</guid>
		<description>To fully appreciate Frank Herbert&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Dune&lt;/i&gt; series, it seems to be necessary to study Plato&#039;s dialogues, perhaps especially &lt;i&gt;Theaetetus&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;Sophist&lt;/i&gt;, and &lt;i&gt;Statesman&lt;/i&gt;, but also &lt;i&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;.  Understand, I&#039;m not trying to burden you and take away the pleasure of reading the series; I&#039;m saying that the better we understand Plato&#039;s writings, the better we&#039;ll understand the &lt;i&gt;Dune&lt;/i&gt; series, and the more we&#039;ll enjoy it.  Machiavelli, Aristotle, Nietzsche, and probably Heidegger will be helpful, too, but Frank Herbert seems to have written the &lt;i&gt;Dune&lt;/i&gt; series with Plato&#039;s dialogues continually in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To fully appreciate Frank Herbert&#8217;s <i>Dune</i> series, it seems to be necessary to study Plato&#8217;s dialogues, perhaps especially <i>Theaetetus</i>, <i>Sophist</i>, and <i>Statesman</i>, but also <i>Republic</i> and <i>Laws</i>.  Understand, I&#8217;m not trying to burden you and take away the pleasure of reading the series; I&#8217;m saying that the better we understand Plato&#8217;s writings, the better we&#8217;ll understand the <i>Dune</i> series, and the more we&#8217;ll enjoy it.  Machiavelli, Aristotle, Nietzsche, and probably Heidegger will be helpful, too, but Frank Herbert seems to have written the <i>Dune</i> series with Plato&#8217;s dialogues continually in mind.</p>
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		<title>By: SandChigger</title>
		<link>http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/science-fiction/plunderers-of-dune/comment-page-1/#comment-3987</link>
		<dc:creator>SandChigger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Aug 2008 05:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.davidlouisedelman.com/?p=1252#comment-3987</guid>
		<description>Patrick?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick?</p>
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